David W. Collins (right) and friend
I first encountered David W. Collins as the perceptive-eared presenter of Star Wars Oxygen: The Music of John Williams, part of the Star Wars-dissecting Rebel Force Radio podcast family. That show was a deep dive and guided tour of the music of the Star Wars films, from its most familiar themes to its deeper cuts. Most strikingly, Collins treated those soundtracks—the most important and influential body of work by a living film composer—with the seriousness and thoughtfulness they deserve.
Recently, Collins has expanded his scope beyond the Star Wars films and launched a new podcast, The Soundtrack Show, as part of the How Stuff Works network. The show promises a familiar mix of insightful musicological critique with the unrestrained fanboy passion for really getting in the weeds—with a theme composed by Collins himself.
Here, Collins speaks about his own musical background and education, his lifelong passion for film music in particular, and his hopes for the podcast.
David, what are you hoping to do with the Soundtrack Show podcast?
When applied to visual media and story, music is extremely powerful. My hope is that musicians and non-musicians alike will find a podcast like this to be informative and empowering when it comes to understanding what’s being communicated to us through music.
And we’re talking about our favorite entertainment! If you want to geek out about what you love, this will add new depth and meaning to it next time you watch that movie or TV show. How deep does our inner geek go? I hope The Soundtrack Show will help us find out.
I love what I do for a living, and I feel so lucky to have the opportunities that I have. I’m fascinated by the creative process, I passionately love music, and I want to share any insights that I may have gained along the way to anyone who’s interested. I also want to lift up the amazing work of others in the industry!
Tell us a bit about your career and work in all things aural.
First and foremost, I owe a lot to Star Wars and Lucasfilm. I started as an intern on the scoring stage at Skywalker Sound, setting up orchestral recordings, and I was really fascinated by the process. From there, I moved to LucasArts, where I served as a sound designer, audio and voice director for over a decade. I spent a few years as a Sound Design Manager at Sony PlayStation before going freelance. Currently, I’m working at Skywalker Sound again as a sound editor and re-recording mixer.
I also have a theater and music background, and all of that crept its way back into my career as well. As a composer, I’ve written for video games, trailers, animation and theater.
As a voice actor, I’ve appeared in the last three Star Wars films under Disney (Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, Star Wars: The Last Jedi), as well as multiple video games (Star Wars Battlefront I and II, God of War: Ascension, Mass Effect: Andromeda, Mirror’s Edge: Catalyst), commercials and animation (Voltron: Legendary Defender, One Punch Man, Hunter x Hunter). I’m currently voicing the Dad in Boss Baby: Back in Business, which just launched its first 13 episodes on Netflix.
How far back can you trace your own passion for and enjoyment of film music? Was there a particular score, or moment even, that made a deep impression on you at an impressionable age?
I was born at a time when there was a renaissance of orchestral film scores. I think my story is similar to a lot of people who remember that era: movies like Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn, Back to the Future, Tron, Conan The Barbarian… The list of great scores goes on and on from that era. It hit me so hard back then, and I’ve been a fan ever since.
In terms of great film score moments from my childhood:
- The binary sunset in Star Wars;
- The use of Siegfried’s funeral music (Twilight of the Gods, Wagner) and Orff’s Carmina Burana in Excalibur;
- The relentless metallic pound and pitch bending drones of The Terminator;
- The music for the ark in Raiders;
- The finale in E.T.;
- The love theme in Tron;
- It’s a small thing, but the Mickey Mousing technique that Silvestri applied to Doc Brown staring at his watch in Back to the Future: “Damn, where is that kid? Damn! Damn, Damn!”;
- Carl Stalling’s work on Looney Tunes was huge for me as a kid.
There’s just too many to list! Really, these are just the first that come to mind.
How did you come to develop an intellectual, musicological appreciation of film music?
I entered my first professional recording studio in Los Angeles when I was 15 (to record a demo for a musical that was never released). I really got the music bug as a teenager. I was obsessed with playing in a band. I was a drummer, but wanted to learn everything: guitar, bass, drums, keys, vocals, production… everything. Since I was the drummer, my friends and I rehearsed in my garage. They’d leave all the gear and instruments there, and I used to go down and noodle around for hours and hours trying to develop some technique, and learn about chords and songwriting.
In college, I was a theater major, since I had done some amateur touring and a ton of musicals throughout the state of California. But I started minoring in music, and it just took over. I became obsessed with music theory.
By my senior year in college, I was listening to as much orchestral music as I could. I remember so clearly hearing Stravinsky’s Petrushka in our college library listening room (things were still on CD and vinyl then), and thinking “Wow, this is like Star Wars!” I just wanted to know more and more. Before I knew it, I was headed off to Berklee College of Music, and then starting my internship at Skywalker Sound in 1999.
I think the real intellectual appreciation came as I was mixing at LucasArts. I would be controlling all of the elements in a final scene, and just marveling at what music would do to a scene that I had been looking at in development for over a year. Sometimes it would be transformative, and make everything pop off of the screen! Other times, it was intrusive. The endless debates fascinate me to this day.
What’s a film score you’ve been digging lately?
In a lot of ways, I’ve been going both backwards and forwards chronologically. I think the most refreshing and inspiring thing I’ve heard all year is Ludwig Goransson’s score for Black Panther. It was exhilarating and so imaginative, as was the whole movie. I loved Joe Kraemer’s inclusion of Puccini in his score for Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation. I thought Dunkirk was an unbelievably tense experience because of the score. Coco’s mix of original songs and Giachinno’s score was really effective. He has such a knack for drawing emotions out of us with such perfect sweetness in his melodies. I love what John Williams brought to The Last Jedi… still so much to say after eight films! I loved Desplat’s score for The Shape of Water….
But going back in the past, I’ve been listening to a lot of Korngold, as I just love his work. It’s such a blueprint for everything that I grew up with! Captain Blood, The Sea Hawk, The Adventures of Robin Hood. I got really into Max Steiner a few years ago, with Casablanca, Treasure of the Sierra Madre and others.
It’s a testament to your work on Star Wars Oxygen that, as far as the Star Wars prequels go, you’ve led many of those who don’t necessarily enjoy those films to at least appreciate the music. Do you have a favorite score of a movie you don’t especially enjoy?
Tron Legacy comes to mind. I like the movie, but thought the film score was absolutely brilliant. I’ve only seen the movie once or twice, but the soundtrack lived in my car for at least a month! I liked Hook, but I think the music absolutely makes that movie. It’s one of my top five Williams scores of all time, but not in the top five of the movies he’s worked on.
There’s a prevalent idea that writing about music is akin to “dancing about architecture”—a problem that your podcast about music won’t have! But what books do “writing about music” well? And might be on The Soundtrack Show further reading list?
What a great quote! That’s why the podcast medium is so perfect for this show: a strong showcase for music and discussion. I think that unless you know how to read music, anything you read about music is difficult, unless you are very well-acquainted with the piece that’s being discussed.
I love a lot of books on music, but not all of them are for the faint of heart. They’re not casual reads. While I don’t want The Soundtrack Show to be casual per se, I do want non-musicians to get just as much out of it as the well-initiated, and that’s certainly a challenge. As the show builds on its own ideas however, I think it’ll get easier.
But books: I love Doug Adams’ The Music of the Lord of the Rings Films, Emlio Audissino’s book John Williams’s Film Music, Alex Ross’s The Rest is Noise, (although that requires a real familiarity with 19th and 20th century concert music, not film music), and many, many others.
As far as other podcasts go, I absolutely love Dr. Robert Greenberg’s multiple series for The Great Courses. He is so intelligent and entertaining. I felt like I was in college studying music history all over again.
Screenings of movies with live orchestral accompaniment are sometimes looked down upon by classical music purists and aficionados. What’s your feeling about the phenomenon—and what would you say to those purists?
I think there’s tremendous irony in looking down on movies with live orchestral accompaniment. The good news is that I believe that most true music lovers don’t feel this way, and they recognize that film and other visual media are the opera of our time. The parallels between film and opera, for example, are undeniable if you study them: opera was the most culturally significant, most popular form of entertainment that existed throughout Europe in the 18th and 19th centuries. Operas featured the absolute latest in technology across multiple disciplines: stagecraft, costuming, machinery, lighting, music, and the presentation of cutting edge social commentary in their libretti. The word “opera” means “work,” as in work of art, representing all of the pieces coming together, with music in the forefront.
Going to the opera in 1850 was even beyond the opening night of a big blockbuster movie… for anyone outside of a major city, it was more like making a pilgrimage to Disneyland.
And just consider: Wagner does his Ring cycle, and we have Howard Shore’s six Middle-earth films. Verdi literally transforms Italy, and John Williams brings whole generations around the world to the concert halls because of his Star Wars music and the power of mass media, transforming film music yet again and bringing the orchestra roaring back into our collective consciousness. Mozart and others signal social change in the age of enlightenment, and movies by Kubrick, Hitchcock, Huston, Curtiz and others get us through war time and other dicey eras in history.
Music left the courts and the aristocracy hundreds of years ago; it belongs with the people. It begs to be popular, and somehow we got away from this idea in the 20th century. I firmly believe that if Wagner, Verdi, Mozart, or Rossini were alive today, they would be writing for film. I think real musical purists know that. Is every film score high art? Of course not, but even Beethoven had his flops.
Film is the most relevant media of our time, and movies with live orchestra are bringing people back into the concert halls; there is no downside to that that I can possibly imagine.
“>
David W. Collins (right) and friend
I first encountered David W. Collins as the perceptive-eared presenter of Star Wars Oxygen: The Music of John Williams, part of the Star Wars-dissecting Rebel Force Radio podcast family. That show was a deep dive and guided tour of the music of the Star Wars films, from its most familiar themes to its deeper cuts. Most strikingly, Collins treated those soundtracks—the most important and influential body of work by a living film composer—with the seriousness and thoughtfulness they deserve.
Recently, Collins has expanded his scope beyond the Star Wars films and launched a new podcast, The Soundtrack Show, as part of the How Stuff Works network. The show promises a familiar mix of insightful musicological critique with the unrestrained fanboy passion for really getting in the weeds—with a theme composed by Collins himself.
Here, Collins speaks about his own musical background and education, his lifelong passion for film music in particular, and his hopes for the podcast.
David, what are you hoping to do with the Soundtrack Show podcast?
When applied to visual media and story, music is extremely powerful. My hope is that musicians and non-musicians alike will find a podcast like this to be informative and empowering when it comes to understanding what’s being communicated to us through music.
And we’re talking about our favorite entertainment! If you want to geek out about what you love, this will add new depth and meaning to it next time you watch that movie or TV show. How deep does our inner geek go? I hope The Soundtrack Show will help us find out.
I love what I do for a living, and I feel so lucky to have the opportunities that I have. I’m fascinated by the creative process, I passionately love music, and I want to share any insights that I may have gained along the way to anyone who’s interested. I also want to lift up the amazing work of others in the industry!
Tell us a bit about your career and work in all things aural.
First and foremost, I owe a lot to Star Wars and Lucasfilm. I started as an intern on the scoring stage at Skywalker Sound, setting up orchestral recordings, and I was really fascinated by the process. From there, I moved to LucasArts, where I served as a sound designer, audio and voice director for over a decade. I spent a few years as a Sound Design Manager at Sony PlayStation before going freelance. Currently, I’m working at Skywalker Sound again as a sound editor and re-recording mixer.
I also have a theater and music background, and all of that crept its way back into my career as well. As a composer, I’ve written for video games, trailers, animation and theater.
As a voice actor, I’ve appeared in the last three Star Wars films under Disney (Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, Star Wars: The Last Jedi), as well as multiple video games (Star Wars Battlefront I and II, God of War: Ascension, Mass Effect: Andromeda, Mirror’s Edge: Catalyst), commercials and animation (Voltron: Legendary Defender, One Punch Man, Hunter x Hunter). I’m currently voicing the Dad in Boss Baby: Back in Business, which just launched its first 13 episodes on Netflix.
How far back can you trace your own passion for and enjoyment of film music? Was there a particular score, or moment even, that made a deep impression on you at an impressionable age?
I was born at a time when there was a renaissance of orchestral film scores. I think my story is similar to a lot of people who remember that era: movies like Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn, Back to the Future, Tron, Conan The Barbarian… The list of great scores goes on and on from that era. It hit me so hard back then, and I’ve been a fan ever since.
In terms of great film score moments from my childhood:
- The binary sunset in Star Wars;
- The use of Siegfried’s funeral music (Twilight of the Gods, Wagner) and Orff’s Carmina Burana in Excalibur;
- The relentless metallic pound and pitch bending drones of The Terminator;
- The music for the ark in Raiders;
- The finale in E.T.;
- The love theme in Tron;
- It’s a small thing, but the Mickey Mousing technique that Silvestri applied to Doc Brown staring at his watch in Back to the Future: “Damn, where is that kid? Damn! Damn, Damn!”;
- Carl Stalling’s work on Looney Tunes was huge for me as a kid.
There’s just too many to list! Really, these are just the first that come to mind.
How did you come to develop an intellectual, musicological appreciation of film music?
I entered my first professional recording studio in Los Angeles when I was 15 (to record a demo for a musical that was never released). I really got the music bug as a teenager. I was obsessed with playing in a band. I was a drummer, but wanted to learn everything: guitar, bass, drums, keys, vocals, production… everything. Since I was the drummer, my friends and I rehearsed in my garage. They’d leave all the gear and instruments there, and I used to go down and noodle around for hours and hours trying to develop some technique, and learn about chords and songwriting.
In college, I was a theater major, since I had done some amateur touring and a ton of musicals throughout the state of California. But I started minoring in music, and it just took over. I became obsessed with music theory.
By my senior year in college, I was listening to as much orchestral music as I could. I remember so clearly hearing Stravinsky’s Petrushka in our college library listening room (things were still on CD and vinyl then), and thinking “Wow, this is like Star Wars!” I just wanted to know more and more. Before I knew it, I was headed off to Berklee College of Music, and then starting my internship at Skywalker Sound in 1999.
I think the real intellectual appreciation came as I was mixing at LucasArts. I would be controlling all of the elements in a final scene, and just marveling at what music would do to a scene that I had been looking at in development for over a year. Sometimes it would be transformative, and make everything pop off of the screen! Other times, it was intrusive. The endless debates fascinate me to this day.
What’s a film score you’ve been digging lately?
In a lot of ways, I’ve been going both backwards and forwards chronologically. I think the most refreshing and inspiring thing I’ve heard all year is Ludwig Goransson’s score for Black Panther. It was exhilarating and so imaginative, as was the whole movie. I loved Joe Kraemer’s inclusion of Puccini in his score for Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation. I thought Dunkirk was an unbelievably tense experience because of the score. Coco’s mix of original songs and Giachinno’s score was really effective. He has such a knack for drawing emotions out of us with such perfect sweetness in his melodies. I love what John Williams brought to The Last Jedi… still so much to say after eight films! I loved Desplat’s score for The Shape of Water….
But going back in the past, I’ve been listening to a lot of Korngold, as I just love his work. It’s such a blueprint for everything that I grew up with! Captain Blood, The Sea Hawk, The Adventures of Robin Hood. I got really into Max Steiner a few years ago, with Casablanca, Treasure of the Sierra Madre and others.
It’s a testament to your work on Star Wars Oxygen that, as far as the Star Wars prequels go, you’ve led many of those who don’t necessarily enjoy those films to at least appreciate the music. Do you have a favorite score of a movie you don’t especially enjoy?
Tron Legacy comes to mind. I like the movie, but thought the film score was absolutely brilliant. I’ve only seen the movie once or twice, but the soundtrack lived in my car for at least a month! I liked Hook, but I think the music absolutely makes that movie. It’s one of my top five Williams scores of all time, but not in the top five of the movies he’s worked on.
There’s a prevalent idea that writing about music is akin to “dancing about architecture”—a problem that your podcast about music won’t have! But what books do “writing about music” well? And might be on The Soundtrack Show further reading list?
What a great quote! That’s why the podcast medium is so perfect for this show: a strong showcase for music and discussion. I think that unless you know how to read music, anything you read about music is difficult, unless you are very well-acquainted with the piece that’s being discussed.
I love a lot of books on music, but not all of them are for the faint of heart. They’re not casual reads. While I don’t want The Soundtrack Show to be casual per se, I do want non-musicians to get just as much out of it as the well-initiated, and that’s certainly a challenge. As the show builds on its own ideas however, I think it’ll get easier.
But books: I love Doug Adams’ The Music of the Lord of the Rings Films, Emlio Audissino’s book John Williams’s Film Music, Alex Ross’s The Rest is Noise, (although that requires a real familiarity with 19th and 20th century concert music, not film music), and many, many others.
As far as other podcasts go, I absolutely love Dr. Robert Greenberg’s multiple series for The Great Courses. He is so intelligent and entertaining. I felt like I was in college studying music history all over again.
Screenings of movies with live orchestral accompaniment are sometimes looked down upon by classical music purists and aficionados. What’s your feeling about the phenomenon—and what would you say to those purists?
I think there’s tremendous irony in looking down on movies with live orchestral accompaniment. The good news is that I believe that most true music lovers don’t feel this way, and they recognize that film and other visual media are the opera of our time. The parallels between film and opera, for example, are undeniable if you study them: opera was the most culturally significant, most popular form of entertainment that existed throughout Europe in the 18th and 19th centuries. Operas featured the absolute latest in technology across multiple disciplines: stagecraft, costuming, machinery, lighting, music, and the presentation of cutting edge social commentary in their libretti. The word “opera” means “work,” as in work of art, representing all of the pieces coming together, with music in the forefront.
Going to the opera in 1850 was even beyond the opening night of a big blockbuster movie… for anyone outside of a major city, it was more like making a pilgrimage to Disneyland.
And just consider: Wagner does his Ring cycle, and we have Howard Shore’s six Middle-earth films. Verdi literally transforms Italy, and John Williams brings whole generations around the world to the concert halls because of his Star Wars music and the power of mass media, transforming film music yet again and bringing the orchestra roaring back into our collective consciousness. Mozart and others signal social change in the age of enlightenment, and movies by Kubrick, Hitchcock, Huston, Curtiz and others get us through war time and other dicey eras in history.
Music left the courts and the aristocracy hundreds of years ago; it belongs with the people. It begs to be popular, and somehow we got away from this idea in the 20th century. I firmly believe that if Wagner, Verdi, Mozart, or Rossini were alive today, they would be writing for film. I think real musical purists know that. Is every film score high art? Of course not, but even Beethoven had his flops.
Film is the most relevant media of our time, and movies with live orchestra are bringing people back into the concert halls; there is no downside to that that I can possibly imagine.
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